i am losing my job because of asperger's syndrome.

[aspietalk]

my job: designer. i do incredible design work, have gotten rave reviews. the board of directors, executive director loves me.

the people i work with: i just found out today that they have been going, behind my back, complaining to my supervisor about me, saying that they don't like working with me. i make them feel "uncomfortable." they're "scared" to approach me.

the entire time i've worked there, i have been very open, very honest, a clear communicator. i document everything, every project is an open book, every new design job i explain to whoever the contact is what will be involved with the project, the timeline, what they'll need to do, what i'll do, deadlines. i've stuck to every one of my deadlines, come thru on everything i promised. i'm very thorough, and very creative.

the problem, apparently: i am not warm and fuzzy enough. there's a social clique at work, women in their 20s, go out for drinking all the time. it was those women in the clique, who i know to have a habit of talking shit about their coworkers behind their backs, as i've listened to it myself, when i used to hang out with them, them talking shit about other coworkers of ours. those women who went to my supervisor complaining that i wasn't friendly enough.

he brought up a list of issues, communication problems with other people at work. every single one, it was where i'd worked out a project timeline with someone, clearly explained it to the other person, they agreed, then they, afterwards, changed their minds, didn't communicate with me, then it blows up in my face, what's my problem, why didn't i see this.

major, major talk with supervisor today, the talk i've had so many times before, about how people have been talking, they feel uncomfortable around me. i say, am i not doing my job? he says no, you are a talented designer, you know it, i know it, you do very good design work, you're very creative. but people feel uncomfortable around you, they don't know how to communicate with you.

i said to him, aren't we adults here, all of us? if any of these people who've been coming to you about me... did it occur to any of them to talk to me first about it, bring it up with me? no, he said, they are scared to approach you.

i just stared at him. i didn't say it, but i couldn't believe what i was hearing. i am one of the most quiet, soft spoken people you will ever meet. these people are "scared" of me? what, i'd threatened them, yelled at them, cussed them, slurred them, thrown things at them? no, i'd never done any of those things. apparently, what i failed to do was smile at them appropriately when they asked me for help. everytime they asked me for help i always stopped what i was doing, went over to their cubes, helped them, but apparently i didn't do it in a warm and fuzzy enough way.

3-4 months ago i'd told my supervisor that i have asperger's syndrome, but as of yet don't have an official diagnosis. i asked him if discussing it with the rest of the dept would be helpful, as it affected communication styles, and would it help for me to get an official diagnosis. he never responded.

today, in his office, this all being laid on me, i reminded him of this, and he told that my diagnosis or not of asperger's syndrome had nothing to do with the situation, that i could get a diagnosis if i felt like it, and he'd help me, but it had no bearing on work.

i told him that this was going to sound silly, but from a sociological standpoint, it is truly stunning what is happening. i am a talented, creative, proactive designer, do very good work, and pretty much the popular kids at school have decided that i make them uncomfortable, and so rather than try to communicate with me, treat me as a human being, they are ganging up against me, saying bad things about me to my supervisor. it not even occurring to them, ever, to approach me first, as if i weren't even a human being, i weren't deserving of that basic respect.

the entire meet with my supervisor today, i felt so incredibly fatalistic, and was trying very hard not to cry.

so i will most likely be out of a job soon, and the timing really sucks.

this is a vent, and a rant. and possibly someone else has gone thru this, and you might have some similar experience, or consolation, or i don't know what.

[Tom]

Ouch. That reminds me of a job I was fired from a long time ago. I was working as a housepainter during summers in college. One day without any warning I was let go, and the reason given was that people didn't think I was friendly. Apparently one of the customers said I was rude, but I certainly don't ever remember saying anything rude to them. One thing I do know I did wrong was that I called out one of my coworkers for lying... he told several blatant lies, and I outed him for it, not really understanding that calling people a liar, even when true, is a strong insult. Now that I'm older I know that was not a good thing to say. Of course I'm not saying that you did anything wrong, just relating my experience.
Then there was the time that I was let go from a filing job when I was in high school... they hired another person soon after I was let go, so I know it was really more of a personality issue. Since then, my strategy has been to be as stealth as possible, backing down whenever there was conflict. It let me keep a job for a long time but led to me getting smaller and smaller.
I certainly don't have any answers, but I do have sympathy. It's just sad that even when we really try that we somehow can't give that warm and fuzzy front that most NTs seem so good at putting on.

[Rholaenos]

Hi there zippityd,

A very similar thing happened to me earlier this year and is still in the process of resolution. I had always known I was a bit different, but it wasn't until the last year or so my friend and I started to zero in on a definition, the source, the explanation [AS]. I started my new job as a health inspector towards the end of August 2007. Things were bumpy for me from the start because I had just moved 400 miles away from my life-long surroundings, friends, and family in southern California. This was the first time I was living completely on my own, first full time job with benefits, etc. After the first month I was (without warning) taken away from my first supervisor, just told one Friday by Ms. V (all names will be abbreviated to Mr. Or Ms. and first name initial), "oh you will be under Ms. D's direction starting Monday."
I really liked my first supervisor and think we got along quite well. We sat down together frequently, talked, and I would do little things for her that I'm good at - like proof reading documents before printing and distribution. Then I was placed under this other supervisor who I did NOT seem to blend well with. There was nothing overtly hostile, but I always got the feeling she was judging me (harshly) and looking for me to screw up. That and she had her two evil minions Mr. M & Ms. M who were her eyes and ears. They were three peas on a pod; they seemed to be grouchy all the time, unhappy with their own lives and consequently did whatever they could to make those around them miserable too. All the while the two underlings appeared to be doing whatever they could to step on the others around them to climb above, to someday become supervisors themselves.
Fast forward a few months to just before my official evaluation with Ms. D. She started bringing up problems that I was aware of, but didn't know the extent to which they had affected those around me. I had heard strange comments here and there, such as when out for the first time with one colleague Ms. G. We were in the car and she asked me some questions and then I started responding and conversation started flowing she looked startled and said "oh, you DO speak!, I had heard that you didn't." as if I was a mute or something. One-on-one, or in very small numbers I did just fine, but larger groups, I admit I was quiet as a church mouse. It was Ms. G, another under my first supervisor V, who warned me about the minions Mr. M & Ms. M.
“Watch out for Mr. M, he's mean and rude to everyone, if he’s not careful he may end up messing with the wrong person someday out in the field and end up dead” he even challenged the authority of my first supervisor Ms. V during a full team meeting. Also, being around Mr. M made me uncomfortable because, even though he was an ass, he worked out, had a nice build, so I was physically attracted to him, yet I got the vibe he would totally be the kind of guy to meet you in a dark alley with a bat and start swinging. I never actually told anyone at work I was gay, but Mr. M would keep asking questions until just before the end, he asked the right ones the right way:
Mr. M: “So why do you go to that particular 24 hour fitness, are there hotter chicks there?”
Me: [no answer, I just chuckled at the ridiculousness and male piggy ness of his question] but then suddenly realized by not answering in some expected way, he had probably just put all the pieces together and figured it out.
“Watch out for that one too”, Ms. G said, “she may look all happy and sweet, but watch your back, she’ll give you Judas Hugs” Anyway, as time went on a pattern emerged, every time I went out for training with Mr. M or Ms. M the next morning I was summoned to go talk to supervisor. I don’t know what they said, but could tell it was always bad and would get an earful like I had done something terribly wrong.

[Rholaenos]

[continuation of post, I guess I'm too wordy]
Even after my actual evaluation, when questioning my supervisor about specifics, I was never told I was doing a bad job, in fact was told my inspections and subsequent reports were complete, accurate, and thorough. However, I was told by Ms. D “you don’t dialogue enough with coworkers or the operators (business owners) and I’m told you don’t dialogue or interact with the other government agencies when you are in contact with them.”
Ms. D: You need to chit-chat more
me: What do you mean by that? [honest question]
Ms. D: [puzzled and irritated look on her face] You need to chit-chat with your coworkers and with people from the other agencies
Me: what exactly is chit-chat? [again, honest question]
Ms. D: [more puzzled/irritated look] talk about the weather or sports or …
Me: talk about completely pointless things that have no bearing on the job or my training? Why am I supposed to do that? …
No good answer was ever provided, just that I was supposed to.
I figured on the clock I was supposed to do my job, do it well, and NOT have idle chatter. But apparently NO, mindless conversation is somewhere in the fine print of the job. Being an Aspie (and gay no less) I have little or nothing in common with coworkers to talk about.
I did my best to fit in, but as things seemed to be sinking anyway I took the first risky step and revealed to my supervisor about having AS, and said I’m willing to do whatever it takes to make this work. She asked if I had the condition documented, which I did not, but told her I was actively pursuing that documentation. I kept trying to get it documented but my health provider Mr. K was unable/unwilling to help because I was over the age of 18. [catch 22 side note, since AS became part of DSM IV in 1994 when I turned 18 it was almost impossible for me to have been diagnosed as a minor]
She had me attend a full day communication workshop (under the watchful eyes of Ms. M). Although my paperwork was complete and good, I was having trouble getting it submitted in a timely manner because the office was full of distractions (too many little noises like the copy machine being 3 feet from my always open door [I was informed by Ms. G that closing the door wasn’t considered a real, viable option, it simply wasn’t done] , my office mate having constant visits from other coworkers wandering the halls busy chit-chatting away, too hot in my office for me (I have a 70 degree max for cognitive, productive functionality)
So figuring it would all come crashing down without intervention anyway, I nervously took a dangerous second step and asked for some accommodations via a letter from my psychologist asking for a cooler, quiet office space so I could be more isolated to get paperwork done. Eventually a meeting was scheduled with ADA coordinators, my supervisor, and myself. On the day of the meeting there were actually 4 people there (and me). The ADA coordinator for the entire county and her assistant were on my left, and on my right, Ms. D and her boss, Mr. R. The ADA lady said, we’ve seen your request for accommodations, and though it will be difficult we will be glad to provide them for you. She shook my hand and left with her assistant. I turned to Ms. D feeling relieved.
Then Ms. D said [something to the effect of]:
“We’re sorry, this just isn’t working out, we are releasing you from probation I’m sorry if you are disappointed.”
DOH!

Fast forward to today, June 12, 2008. I got a call from my career counselor Ms. C, from the California Department of Rehabilitation – she had the results from last week’s evaluation and the psychologist said I met the criteria for AS, I am now officially diagnosed and documented!
So, now I’m going to get all my docs in order and file an EEOC claim and see what happens to my employer who seems to have released me for the ultimate crime against humanity, insufficient chit-chat in the workplace!

[Amanda]

wow, that is super horrible. I hope you can get them in trouble for that. They sound awful.

[Brandon Campbell]

I remember, in the dorms my first year of college, one day my RA took me aside and basically told me that certain people on our floor (the ones I had been trying the hardest to become friends with) were uncomfortable with the way I was approaching them. I was pretty much devastated, as I didn't know any other way I was comfortable approaching them, plus the fact that they would go behind my back to complain about me. I know now that my behavior at the time was very stalker-like, but I was helpless as far as finding any replacement for it, so it just pushed me further back in my hole and kept me from trying to find any other friends in my dorm (especially when I needed some the most, when my classes were getting harder), and in the end I dropped out and transferred to a smaller, lesser-known college closer to home.

[Erithianopius]

The exact same thing happened to me. It is identical to my experience in my first year. About two months into my first semester, I got a call telling me to go down to the housing office, where my RA and the Resident Life Coordinator (the boss of all the RAs) told me that several students had complained, saying the same thing, that they were uncomfortable with the way I was approaching them (those exact words). I didn't know the reason for that at the time. It really put me into a bad phase in my life. I did not feel comforable at all for about the next two years. To make matters worse, just before I started college, my mom went on this big thing about all the things I was doing that she thought were wierd/awkward that I needed to stop doing. If I were to list them it would look like I was just copying a list of Asperger's traits from a book. Two years later, Zath, the person who is now my closest companion, noticed those same traits in me. She also has AS (which I didn't know about until I met her), and she immediately approached me. We hit it off immediately, and I found that I feel perfectly comfortable talking to her. She told me that it seems like I have Asperger's, and when she told me the reasons why, it all began to click. They were all the things that I had not understood about myself. I already knew that we have a lot of similar traits, but for some reason I never made the connection. She put it in such a positive light, which my aspie traits (except for certain mental abilities) never had been put in. It gave me a new perspective. I later talked to my mom about it and she told me that when I was three I had been diagnosed as "atypical autistic" by one doctor, than a few months later diagnosed as PDD-NOS. She had been in denial about it and as a result did not tell me. She always wanted me just to be like everybody else. I began to explain everything to her, and it just then seemed to dawn on her just then that the things that make me who I am are largely connected to or are directly the result of my AS. Since then her perspective has changed completely and she now embraces the things that make me unique.

[quin browne]

i had many of the same problems, and was fortunate, i suppose, in the ability to assimilate into the podpeople approach because i am older, and well, it was sink or swim. i also worked in a creative field, where my quirks were welcome, so...

later, it became harder, and i understand now, it is my inability to communicate clearly...they speak hebrew without vowels, and i don't even speak hebrew. you understand. i've been lucky in the fact i work in the arts, i act and write, so... i am my own boss now. when i work in production, i've had problems... like you, i'm mild mannered and never raise my voice, HOWEVER, that look we have? as a friend said, "when you simply stare, it's creepy. you stare through people"

with that said... it's been to my advantage when working with actors who are not doing their jobs... i stare them down.

work on your communication skills is the best advice i can give, then, well, f*ck the rest of it... you can always sue under job discrimination.

[Tabi]

I am wondering if you thought about either do designs freelance or even start your own design comany. From what you said, you kept in touch with the clients and met all deadlines, but the only problem that you have is dealing with your coworkers. If they don't understand what you go though, it is their problem.

[John]

I am sorry to hear of your discrimination at work.I was self employed for much of my working life in England,it is a way an Aspie can avoid the worst of NT herd harrassment/rejection in the workplace.However I passed the selection process for the role of trainee Police Officer with the PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland) a couple of years ago.In each recruitment campaign just under 8000 people apply for approx 200 places.Role plays and problem solving exercises must be passed to get into the successful top 4 percent of candidates.The process was designed by NTs for NTs but I managed to successfully pass it by using my intelligence to make up for lack of NTness particularly in the role plays.When I actually began training however the trainers immediately spotted that I was not NT and following a minor routine change problem became aware I was Aspergers and I was dismissed.I am currently taking a case against them for Disability Discrimination.

[John "Hai" Knapp]

I have wondered if you have a legal case; can you prove it was because of your disability? I would really like to hear if you can sue. The employer should have communicated with you.

I too have, less directly, lost my job at Sears Holding because I have Aspergers Syndrome. I was an in home service technician. While I became a great washing machine mechanic I wasn't able to make customers feel comfortable about me being in there home. At this time I knew I was different, but I didn't know it was Aspergers. It was after that I figured I had better find what it was, mainly to seek help from Nebraska Voc Rehab.

I was terminated, not for misconduct, but because I was found not able to perform some of the required duties.

Before a hiring on at Sears I was a Test Technician at a battery charger manufacturer; previously survived many downsized; then they downsized again, I got layed off. I have wondered if being different had anything to do with why I got layed off. Many years earlier I have worked at a 2-way radio shop, they got slow and I got layed off. Ability to interface with customers had much to do with their decision, why me and not somebody else. Otherwise I was a good bench technician. I also know those things because the boss at my next employer told me, which he found out when he contacted them for a reference.

I also tried to work for a Beatrice State Developmental Center in Beatrice NE. 12 days later I was fired; reasons were false, but being on my probation I had no say so. I don't think that had anything to do with having Aspergers, I think they were just incredibly political. They have the kind of employees that lie to get people fired.

[William]

This sounds like the story of me life. I have held jobs where people were scared to death of me. I am classically autistic, and even though I thought I was doing a pretty good job of hiding it, it still shows on many occasions. I've been told that I have this stare or look. I guess it comes from all of the years of eye contact training. Cops tend to mistake me for a druggie (I don't touch any of that stuff).

In order to survive, in the job market, I have learned to become socially invisible. To appear less threatening to others, I also wear a medical alert bracelet. I also learned to use mostly informal language (this is of prime importance in America) with co-workers. Instead of using "mother" or "father" when talking about parents,
try using the terms "mom" and "dad." I also used to use technological solutions in order to keep track of what is said behind my back. DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If monitoring is detected there can be very serious legal and social consequences.

Other things that can be done is to leave autism (depicting adults) related magazines in the employee break area (if not against company rules). Just make sure to remove the name and address label. Most importantly, know what is going on on the TV and sports. If allowed, decorate your cube with pictures of family and friends, this will make you appear more "people oriented." I still get the "Rain Man" and "serial killer" jokes, but things are not as bad as they used to be.

[Margot]

You know,what you said is very interesting.I used to attend a four year art college called Savannah College of Art and Design.the people there went out of their way to dress and act different from the norm and if you acted like everyone else you were considered boring.I always thought that really creative and artsy people were different from the norm.I almost wonder if in today's world these people would have been labelled aspies.What was interesting to me was that they did none of us really seemed to fit in in the main stream high school yet when we went off to college we were able to make lots of friends.
I also noticed that it people would hire you even if you dressed very different from the norm and had purple hair or something like that.In the real world you are regarded as a freak if are different from everyone else.Sometimes I wish I could go back there!